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Front windows stopped working

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19:54
June 30, 2019


Tim

Netherlands

New Member

posts 2

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Hi all!

 

I'm the proud and happy owner of a 2002 Vel Satis 3.5, and new here :)!

 

I'm having an issue with my front windows and mirrors since a little while, and I hope someone here is able to help me as I'm pretty stuck troubleshooting…

 

After starting one day both windows refused to go down/up any longer (no window motor sounds at all); also the mirrors are not being able to be controlled or power folded using the joystick. The button for the passenger window on the passenger side does not work either (but is also lit), it also does not work after removing the 29-pin connector on the drivers side from the window motor and leaving the passenger side connected.

The Renault dealer searched for about 2 hours to find a cause, but they didn't find anything so far; however it seems the fuses are fine. I removed them again myself, and they are OK. The window control buttons on the doors are also lit.

Now, there are a few things I'm unsure about, and I hope someone can help me with this:

- A friend owning a few Vel Satis too told me that both windows should be able to work if you unplug the 29-pin connector on one side; so actually independent from eachother. I was not sure about this due to the multiplex. Is this definitely true?

- If so, then it would be very weird that both window motors and the mirror control knob all broke down at the same moment. In that case, I was thinking about a more central factor. Now I've read in the Renault manuals that (01E-15) "the interior computer releases function of the one-touch up/down window control and the memory system via two special connections". I'm actually wondering if it could be the windows do not work because this is not being released (the signal is bad)?

- The memory system seems to work though: the drivers seat goes into position and (many people probably know the issue with the passenger side mirror going all down sometimes) sometimes the passenger side mirror is being set too.

So, maybe the issue could be a broken wire (I'd vote for in the drivers door) as it stopped working without the passenger door being touched, but if the systems are able to operate on their own in every door, it should still work on the passenger side.

When checking the pin schema of the 29-pin cable (88D-6), there are several pins for the mirrors and their multiplex, so I don't think this multiplex could break the window operation and vice versa? The cable seems to have pin 27 to the interior computer. If this is true for both sides and their computers/window motors, this could also not be the cause of everything not working, or the interior computer is bad.

Hoever, if the window systems are unable to operate standalone/independent from the other door everything could change of course; then it could be a broken multiplex unit in one of the doors or another component being in the multiplex network (memory computer or interior computer also).

 

Thanks a lot for any help or info in advance :)!

 

Tim

22:13
June 30, 2019


dpress

Member

posts 188

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Tim welcome to the forum. Unfortunately there are very few Vel Satis owners left in the UK, so you may not get the advice you are after here. If you have had a Renault dealer examine your car then I am assuming a diagnostic check has been carried out and there are no fault codes stored?

Do the rear windows still work correctly, and does the child lock function on the master switch also work?

I see from the Dialogys manual that there are 2 types of master window switch, they both look the same but only one is connected to the multiplex system (black cable connector). Do you have the multiplexed type? The manual has details of how to check the switch with a multimeter (chapter 84A – 15)

I can't comment on whether the windows will operate independently if disconnected as I don't know. The one touch function is disabled if you disconnect the battery and needs to be reset (details in the handbook) but in those circumstances the windows will still move 100mm at a time in steps even when not reset. 

Have you done any electrical testing on any of the components or switches to see if you have current present when trying to operate them? The Dialogys manual has a section relating to the tests for the mirror function at chapter 84A – 20 which gives details of what pins should have current in any given situation, so you may be able to look at that.

Initially, my experience has always been that these types of problem are caused by low battery voltage – even though I keep my battery regularly charged the voltage will drop over time if the car is not used due to the various computer functions that never turn off, such as the handbrake computer. If I were you, I would disconnect the battery and leave the car for an hour before reconnecting it, and ensuring that the battery is fully charged. This may 'reset' the UCH. 

I have noticed on my own car that the mirrors will not fold while the windows are being operated, so there must be some sort of override function in the system and this may be what is causing your issue. Could it be a fault in one of the switches – the fact that they are illuminated does not meant that the relevant pins are all working, just that the small bulb is getting current. Hopefully you can check the various switches as above, but you might also want to consider obtaining (or borrowing) spare ones to substitute to check.

Good luck with fixing your problem.

All the best, Steve (also a 2002 3.5 owner)

22:05
July 1, 2019


Tim

Netherlands

New Member

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Post edited 22:06 – July 1, 2019 by Tim


Hey Steve!

 

Thank you for your extensive reply :)! I believe the cars are getting more scarce everywhere, so it's not only the UK ;) I even had a new reception guy at the Renault dealer that asked me if it really was a Renault as he never heard of a Vel Satis and has never seen one either.. So then I invited him to come with me to the car and sit in it so see what Renault made years ago ^^ Fortunately they have one older mechanic that knows almost everything of the Vel Satis and tells you mostly in 3 seconds what is wrong, but with this multiplex-window-thingy he was flabbergasted.

 

And yes, correct! There were no specific error codes present regarding the windows or anything related. The mechanic also told me (which I can confirm from the service manual) that the window/mirror multiplex is not connected to CAN/OBD so they are unable to diagnose that system with the computer (DDT2000 etc.).

 

Good part is that I replaced the window switches a little while ago because of broken illumination, and that I kept the old ones. So, I already tried the old but known working switches (the new ones were also working though) to ensure it's nothing switch related.

 

I noticed that the car has quite a big drain when parked indeed. If I do not drive it for a few weeks sometimes, the battery is definitely low, and as the battery is quite big it's hard to charge it in a drive of a few hours. I swapped the battery after the window issue occurred, but I did not leave it for longer time with the terminals disconnected (like max. 10 minutes maybe), so it could be worth trying to leave it disconnected for a few hours and see if that solves anything.

 

I'll try to troubleshoot it further and if any new details arise I'll update the thread, maybe it's helpful for someone else in the future having the same problem.

 

Cheers!

08:24
July 2, 2019


dpress

Member

posts 188

4
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Thanks for the reply – it certainly seems a mysterious problem! The only window issue I have ever had is that the passenger window for a number of years would only move up and down in 100mm movements, and then sometimes when you got to the top it would go right down for no reason. My local dealer suggested that it was a window motor fault, and trying to reset the window as per the hand book failed to do anything. Last year I replaced the battery, and all of a sudden the window problem disappeared – so it appears it was related to low battery voltage all along, even though the battery always had sufficient charge to start the car. Monitoring it I found the car would start with voltage as low at 11.9V, but maybe the UCH was being effected by the constant low voltage?

Anyway, I hope you manage to sort out your problem.

 

Best regards, Steve

17:28
July 7, 2019


bmn

St.Andrews

Member

posts 152

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Hi Tim,

 I gree with Steve. Any trouble I've had with the windows and mirrors has always been down to a weak battery. I had a similar problem last month, Left side mirror not moving and the windows not retracting fully. My cure was getting a new battery under my AA warranty scheme. This problem has been happening since I purchased my car and was always caused by a weak battery. My batteries last about 2 – 3 years and then need replacing. You could try borrowing a battery from a friend. I have a power pack which I keep handy and when I connect it to the battery there is a loud click and the mirrors start working.

Hi Steve nice to see that you're up and running. THe question I have for you is what  headlight bulb pack was recommended for improving the headlights. I couldn't find on site. Can you help me please.

This is a list of my latest problems since we last spoke. New camshaft sensor,broken front spring.window regulator. new handbrake unit and a new battery. Thankfully all covered by my AA warranty. During the inspection of my window regulator the patrolman chipped the glass in four places which required them getting a new fro Renault France.

All the best to you both and hope your problems are small.

Brian

    

06:52
July 8, 2019


le barge

Member

posts 38

6
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Hi Guys,

  Yes, I agree, a poor battery can cause sooooo many nasties.

  On your bulbs query Brian, I resolved the crap xenon headlights problem by fitting new Osram DS2 Xenarc Nightbreaker low-beam bulbs – now I can see! They are truly worth the cost and aggravation to fit. I left the high-beams as they were, as there is little choice for H9 bulbs, and the original ones offer good enough light. Whilst I had the front bumper off, I also fitted Osram 501 cool white LED sidelight bulbs. These are very white and quite bright, unlike the little orange glow worms.   They do cause the voice warning of bulb fault every time I use the lights, so I switched off the voice, now just getting the gong warning.

   Meanwhile my life with Camille, the green Initiale, carries on, with the occasional hiccup expected of a VS.

   On the subject of headlights, I also discovered the ability to manually change the height of these, by means of a white hexagonal pastic adjuster you can access without removing the bumper. Did this at the last MOT. More info if you need it.

   Keep smiling,     Best,      Paul.

18:45
July 8, 2019


dpress

Member

posts 188

7
0

Brian, glad that Paul has chimed in regarding bulbs – I have to say that I have not got round to doing anything with mine…. I don't often drive at night although the car is still getting plenty of use, and nearing 80K now. Due for service and MOT later this month, but I am sure it will be okay (fingers crossed behind back,,,)

I did splash out recently and had the 2 front wheels refurbished when the tyres were changed, and will get the back ones done as soon as I have worn the rears out.

Cheers, Steve

17:59
September 19, 2019


Kerry

New Member

posts 1

8
0

Hi Tim,

Did you ever get this resolved. I bought myself a Vel Satis last month and I'm struggling with the same issue as yourself.

I have tried replacement working 29 pin temics which did not solve the issue. The fuses are all good, the switch also works as it should.

I managed to get the passenger side window motor to work but it will only go up, this will only go up if the drivers side multiplex is unplugged. As soon as I plug it back in the passenger side goes dead. Drivers side does nothing even if the passenger side multiplex is unplugged.

The temics I have here have all been tested in another car and work exactly as they should do l.

I got the window moving by shorting the up signal wire straight to positive, same with down to prove the motor and regulator were good.

Does anyone know if there's a relay on the uch somewhere?

I am also sure my battery is incorrect which might correlate to the issue. It's fitted with a 096 when I'm sure it should be a 110? Cars a 3.0 diesel. If I leave it for approx 4 days the car won't start and needs to be charged.

Could it be as simple as a duff battery? Even on full charge the Windows do not work.

If I can't solve it the last resort would be re wiring the Windows with some universal module but I'm struggling to find which pins I need to splice into for the positive, earth and the up/down at the switch as I would like to keep it as oem as possible.

20:18
September 30, 2019


very tall brad

Member

posts 12

9
0

Always always always use a fully charged extra capacity car battery. These cars are little imps if you try and drive them with a poor battery.

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