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DCi 3.0 Initiale Overheating at speed

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08:49
May 15, 2012


hickettsa

Guest

11
0

R9UKE said:

Oh dear, sorry to hear that.  As for the 2.2 dCi question – absolutely not, it's by far most troublesome of the Vel Satis engines.  Running costs are an issue, but the 3.5 V6 seems to represent best reliability.

The Avantime is a great car, I have one and absolutely love it.  But do I prefer it to the Vel Satis?  No.  The driving experience, comfort and amount of gadgets are well behind.  However – reliability seems much better.

Just out of interest, how much would you want for the car as it is?  I'd love an overheating dV6 to conduct a few experiments on and monitor exactly what happens to cause it to overheat….

Hi there, thanks for this, drop me an email on andyhicketts@blueyonder.co.uk and we can go from there.

Smile

16:30
May 15, 2012


Rosic

Guest

12
0

I have a different view on 2.2 engine than Luke.

I had one, and after turbo failure at 100.000 miles it keeps going for another 50.000 without any problem. Of course i need to exchange a lot of parts, but none was a proper engine related things.

I never had a problem with keeping right temp, never had brake down on the road and generally i heard a lot of stories about faulty overheating 3.0 which are badly designed, but not about any major faults with 2.2.

Anyway i love my Avantime with 3.0 v6 and automatic gearbox, so im really tempted to get a 3.5v6 vel. It must be the only proper engine for that car!
And, as Luck said, Avantime is awsome, great car, but ride in Vel Satis it is a top experience. Better than in any other car I travelled so far

13:03
August 8, 2012


AndrewS

Guest

13
0

I hit the same problem yesterday. Driving from Kendal to Shap on my own (no wife to object) I drove briskly (!), especially up the long ascent to the top. Suddenly the engine lost power, the display shone STOP, and the temperature gauge was off the scale. I pulled up and let the engine idle (watching steam escaping from under the car) resulting in the gauge slowly returning to normal. As I was visiting Rosic, he suggested we checked the oil, which was just on the min mark – so assumed it was OK.

I then researched this forum and the French forum to find overheating 3.0 dCIs is an issue. Following links I found this technical note on a Saab forum relating to the same engine. I have translated the French as follows:

"When strong acceleration is combined with low oil in the engine (dipstick on min), the oil pump can suck oil mixed with air. This affects the pressure of the oil cooling nozzles for cooling the pistons. It will follow that will overheat the pistons and they are likely to stop. The driver receives no indication of overheating before the damage has been done. A new dipstick has been designed and the min-max has been increased by 0.5 litres."

On that basis I put 2 litres of oil in to take it just above the max mark. Then taking a deep breath, I tried to replicate my drive on the same route; result: no overheating. Now this could be because I did not cane the engine as much the second time, or for several other reasons. I have it booked into Cliff's in Kendal to check things out, and am replacing the  thermostat as preventative maintenance, as well as to remove any potentially misleading symptoms.

I am crossing my fingers that damage has not been done. However the word from the horse's mouth is to keep your oil level up to the max mark or even 0.5 litres above.

Andrew

3.0 dCI Initiale 74K

09:16
October 3, 2012


triton117

Guest

14
0

hickettsa said:

Hi there,

Have been VS owner for 5 years, now 120,000 miles, all main dealer serviced last one in March, and have been very happy with the car.

 

A few weeks ago not long after last Renault service, the VS started to overheat at speed (above 70 on motorway!), temperature would drop on reducing speed and coolant was disappearing, AA and local specialist have done the gas emissions test re : head gasket which seemed positive.

They have by way of diagnosis:

  • replaced cracked expansion bottle
  • replaced thermostat
  • replaced water pump, and done timing belt etc at same time
  • replaced radiator

None of the above has solved the issue, at speed my beloved VS is still overheating and the heater is blowing cold air which seems to suggest coolant circulation issues or worse?.

The garage put the copper filing, type gunk into coolant system to validate the Head gasket was OK and the overheating is still there. 

Having spend a fair bit so far, I and my wallet are creaking, anyone had similar issue and / or got any ideas, I love the car so am keen to finish the work but running out of ideas.

Thanks in advance

Andy

 

Hi. Same problem with mine. Turns out thermostat faulty so coolant slowly evaporates. Replace thermostat. Big job and expensive as practically everything needs to come off. We bought software and manual for a tenner online. Tells you how to do it step by step. Also diagnoses it and you can do a lot of work yourself. Saves a fortune. Even tells you what to buy with the part. Good luck! Helen :)

16:19
October 15, 2012


AndrewS

Guest

15
0

So my overheating problem has not gone away. The diagnosis was obtained, by my reliable local Renault specialist, by putting a pressure gauge on the header tank. On firing up, the pressure immediately increased; revving the engine increased it further. This points to combustion gases getting into the water circuit, converting water to steam and venting out of header tank.

The best scenario is a blown gasket (or two); the worst is a cracked cylinder head or block. One poster on the forum found replacing the head gasket and sealing it with racing car gasket sealer solved it. So I will try that route.

My local guy has not worked on the Isuzu 3.0 DCI so does not want to attempt the job, which is honest of him. So the question is: does anyone know of a person or garage that has done a head gasket change on a 3.0 DCi, and is trustworthy? I obviously would like a quote based on experience rather than one based on “not done it before so guess high and double it”. I live in Kendal but am prepared to travel if necessary.

Reading the forum there has been good said of Freestyle Renault in Brighton, Wests in Cambridge, Field & Co in Hanley Swan near Malvern, and Renault Oldham.

Cheers

Andrew

3.0 DCi Initiale 79K

16:57
October 15, 2012


R9UKE

Guest

16
0

Andrew also consider Saab and Vauxhall specialists.  The engine was fitted to the Vectra, Signum and 9-5 and also suffers similar issues in those cars.

20:36
November 3, 2015


Fourwheels

Guest

17
0

R9UKE said:

Oh dear, sorry to hear that.  As for the 2.2 dCi question – absolutely not, it's by far most troublesome of the Vel Satis engines.  Running costs are an issue, but the 3.5 V6 seems to represent best reliability.

The Avantime is a great car, I have one and absolutely love it.  But do I prefer it to the Vel Satis?  No.  The driving experience, comfort and amount of gadgets are well behind.  However – reliability seems much better.

Just out of interest, how much would you want for the car as it is?  I'd love an overheating dV6 to conduct a few experiments on and monitor exactly what happens to cause it to overheat….

Hi,  I know this is an old post but I have the same problem with my lovely 3.0dCi Initiale and so far have done all the things mentioned in this thread apart from changing water pump and cylinder head gaskets.  CO2 test is negative so gaskets probably OK,  coolant circulation seems OK and I am fighting shy of going for the water pump because it is a fairly big job.  ( wish I had done it when I did the Cambelt! ).  I lose coolant from the expansion tank cap when it overheats and the temperature ( on the OBD reader ) goes up to 235°F before dropping back to the normal 185°F running temperature if I keep the speed down to less than 60-65mph.  Has anyone had any luck with this problem?

regards,

AHB

22:33
November 3, 2015


AndrewS

Guest

18
0

Looking back I realise I did not give the outcome on this thread. I found a diesel specialist in Kendal. To cut a long story short, he found the rear cylinder head was slightly warped, so sent it to an engineering shop which shaved about 4 thou off it (if my memory serves me right). Taking a head off is time-consuming, so the whole job cost me nearly as much as the car had! But i felt that if I scrapped it and went for another one, I might only find other problems. So far, 30K later, it has been right as rain. Probably no hep to you AHB, but as I said, I wanted to give the end of the story.

18:41
April 5, 2016


Fourwheels

Guest

19
0

Post edited 19:00 – April 5, 2016 by Fourwheels


My 2004 Initiale 3.0 dci has been displaying the same overheating symptoms for about 12 – 18 months.  Flushed coolant system twice and replaced thermostat.  Replaced the expansion tank after discovering splits in the moulding. Replaced radiator cap with correct 1.8bar type. Nothing effected the problem.  Car had been fine for previous 11 years as it was owned by a friend who always had it serviced by Renault dealers. By the way I did the Cambelt at 90,000 as a precaution.  See separate post on fuel injection problems for which I think I have a solution.

Went to a specialist radiator shop in Bedford  ( Kempston Radiator, very helpful ) and they tested the coolant system for pressure and chemical contamination ( i.e. CO2 and Hydro Carbons ) and the chemical test came up with a big positive.  So it's the head gasket(s).  Great to finally have a positive diagnosis, except of course I now have to contemplate a gasket change.  They did suggest I try a sealant called Prestone which is achingly expensive but not as bad as a head-off job.

Most other things work well, except the cover over the Sat Nav.  Does anyone know how to get the Carminat radio out to get at the constant torque springs on the cover?  I lost the push starting function on the starter button and followed the post which described the repair to the card reader ( broken finger on card detector ).  The rear parking sensors do not like the winter but perk up again during the warmer weather.  I must get around and do some sealing!

 I will post again once the gunk has time to settle in, they recommended taking it gently for a week.  I use a cheap OBD monitor to keep an eye on the coolant temperature as it is more sensitive than the temperature gauge.

 

Mileage now turned 100,000.  It would break my heart to part with her so must press on.  I would only be spending the money on some younger rust trap that was not nearly as comfortable as the Vel.

10:59
May 2, 2016


stilkus

Guest

20
5

Post edited 11:00 – May 2, 2016 by stilkus


It seems that this thread is being revived over and over again and people still assume it's a head gasket issue, well it is not and this 3,0 DCI ISUZU outsourced engine seems to suffer cylinder sleeve problems where the sleeve moves up and down mimicking a blown head gasket symptoms when it is actually a blown engine block costing thousands in repair and this is basically caused by running the engine at high RPM's for a long time with low oil leading to overheating of the pistons and their expansion sticking and grabbing the cylinder walls up and down lowering it from the cylinder head allowing for the escape of combustion gases through the cooling circuit and the most practical/cost effective solution for this is to replace the engine and never let it run low on oil again as oil is used to cool piston skirts in this specific engine.


 

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